Comments on: Discerning achievements from self transformation is vital

By: Spheres of Awareness - The Thoughts

Spheres of Awareness - The Thoughts — Tue, 08 May 2007 19:31:25 +0000

[...] an ever ongoing process of self-development – the kind of self transformation that is spoken of here. When stuck within the inner spheres I always found it difficult to [...]

By: kulcsi

kulcsi — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:27:26 +0000

Interesting conversation, and article!

I think conscious effort can be interpreted in only one way in course of personal development, and this is the former formula! The transformation of individual indeed happens in course of goal achievements, but this is only an epiphenomena, so one can’t affect it directly.

In my interpretation Attila’s dinstinction between the goal achievement and self transformation is well articulated in the level of existentialism. From this point of view it is not important at all the former formula; there is only one thing, the qualia of being, and everything else is without any importancy.

By: Attila Borcsa

Attila Borcsa — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:02:18 +0000

You understood it perfectly right. My homework will be to write done 100 times that you are right

OK, on the serious side, I think it is just semantics. And thanks for bringing your point in. Cheers!

By: teodora

teodora — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:46:56 +0000

maybe I misunderstood most of it but what i want to say is that changing your life and yourself can’t be separated, and they are not opposites. formulas also can work.

By: teodora

teodora — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:34:53 +0000

Better than not. Better than saying “i want to become a better person” cos that means nothing. Whatever change comes it will reflect on your life and vica versa, these can’t be separated. Self dev. and transformation sounds too abstract to mee.. can you wake up one day and say, hurray, I am tranformed!? not, unless your a frog prince or such.

By: Attila Borcsa

Attila Borcsa — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:06:56 +0000

teodora,
Setting a measurable (?!), specific goal is better than what?

I believe I gave you a straight answer to how I see achievements, or ‘results’ if you prefer, in this context. And also agreed with you in the context you are pointing them out. Does it still looks like I am against or denying them? Or that I don’t want results through self transformation? Or maybe your reply wasn’t directed to my answer, it was just a general observation.

By: teodora

teodora — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:45:54 +0000

I have nothing against moral values as goals but as anything else these also have signs, cause and effect things, materialized forms like helping an old lady cross the road or not killing a bug or whatever, maybe these are wrong examples. But as I read in another blog:) setting a measurable, specific goal is better. I can hardly believe that you don’t want to achieve results through self-transformation, even if it’s not money and health then something else.

By: Attila Borcsa

Attila Borcsa — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:20:38 +0000

teodora,
Thanks for pointing these out. I admit that I formulated a polarized attitude. Sometimes I tend to Because of this, what I was trying to say might not be clear enough.

You might have been noticing it – as you’ve been here from when I started this blog – I am strong on the moral connotations. This is what is usually left out from self development books and frameworks. The achievement orientation is everywhere. Because of this, it all looks sometimes as nothing but a way to get rich ASAP for ex. Now you might say that there is nothing wrong with getting rich My point is that self development should have other values as points of reference than money or social success. Why not have even moral values among those?

Taken as strictly as you did, your point is valid. I agree completely. Achieving goals in personal development is also achievement. True. What I was trying to say is that even the personality changes are reflected in one’s consciousness. This is why I said ‘it is dependent of consciousness’. From my point of view it is the consciousness that is ‘evolving’, that is developed. That needs to be transformed. So, my answer to your last question is: yes, there might be change. Even significant change. Though it is not a trivia like ‘change your thoughts in 10 steps and quit smoking’.

By: teodora

teodora — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:20:21 +0000

Some say what you do is who you are. In that case 1=2. I think becoming this or that, developing skills, having a different behaviour etc. is just as much an achievement as finishing a school or buying a house. Becoming a new, better, enlighted, true, tranformed, whatever person is an inconceivable goal, because it is based on subjective judgement. I can see myself as a different person in every minute if I want to. I can be good, bad, brand new and old… does it matter? If being somebody is about flagging myself then self-transformation is needless, I just put up a new sticker. Where do you want to transform, what does it mean? And then what? getting out of reincarnations reaching nirvana levitating feeling full and happy and understanding the whole word – these are desires and achievements just like any other. Is there really any change?