Also, I stated that I can not give a definition for maturity. It might be an eventual result of the inner transformation through your personal development effort, if you like. And I am aware that there is more to it.

It is as difficult to define it as understanding a symbol. There are numerous interpretations, each grasping it from a particular sign. The point is that this characteristic is telling us about its nature. It is the meeting point of personal and spiritual, finite and infinite. Like Alice stepping through the Looking-glass into another world. And much more analogies are available.

In time, I will try and give a possible framework to achieve this state, according to the Vertegram manifesto. So, I will get to some details according to how I perceive this process. Please be patient on that.

Regarding your example with the puzzle, quite visual. I understand your point. This is why I am saying that at first, we need to see the possible path or framework from a broader view. At first, try and grasp the possibilities, see the potential, see what’s available. Then, as you say, figure out the smaller steps. The big picture is available, maybe we are not even there yet to recognize it.

Definiton: a small step is a little piece of knowledge about yourself, that helps understand a little piece of you. Add a lot of those small things up and you will get a decent definition about yourself. But you will miss the central axis I think, the framework which contains the pieces of this puzzle. Imagine a puzzle of 1000 pieces with having no big picture of it. That can be depressing. That is what I ment when I talked about disillusionment a few comments ago. So, I am confused.

My opinion is that finding out those small things moves you forward, but it takes much more (I don’t know what though ) to get to master or just to understand the framework you’re built upon.

Agree, many aspects move us forward. I am just saying that there must be clearly defined the major goal. Because the framework for your personal development must not lack safety and guidance. This can be considered as an axis. And then you can build it all up in small steps, around it.

Why I think this is essential? Because we are talking self development. Development on yourself by yourself. Not an easy task. So, it means that you rarely have an outer point of support. You’ll need an inner one. This is why I propose ‘developing a soul’ or ‘reaching maturity’ as an axis for the unfolding of personal development.

It is completely different when it comes to spiritual development. [irony]That’s much more difficult to tinker.[/irony]

But how would you define smaller steps? I am curious about what do you actually mean by them.

Small things matter.

It is very difficult to define maturity. You have a good point there. My approach here is mainly on the existential side.
When I try to define it, I always have the impression that there is something more to it. And I tend to believe that it will stay like this. I don’t think there is actually a point where you can say: “Now I am mature.” You are perfectly right on this too.
Nonetheless, when you think/feel that you have achieved something, it won’t turn you into a smug to admit that. In fact I think it will help in maintaining a healthy self-confidence. It is a bug (sic!) in our Christian-Judaic-Roman inheritance that self confidence is wrong, or God’forbid a sin.

Right, there is a difference between the types of goals you are after. It is very difficult to approach maturity in this way. It is more like a pattern you could fill up, but I think it might not be impossible to set it as a goal too. I guess we disagree on this.

Of course, when I want to drink a coffee, I can be motivated by various things, like the sensual pleasure through its taste, the promise of its refreshing effect etc. But what actually happens is that the cup is getting filled up. And the coffee beans had a long journey ’till got there…

Good point, that man is always developing himself, is always trying to get one step further in personal development. The urge for this is a builtin feature

Have one question though: isn’t this getting to disillusionment at one point? When you’re pursuing an almost untouchable goal, a goal that cannot be defined precisely, that is likely, isn’t it?

I admit it, usually I am avoiding reductionism. In my belief, it doesn’t help much. Good for informational purposes, it won’t hurt to understand it at that level. Not very productive though in self development.

There are 2 different approaches to the subject, in the way I see it:
1. the one that considers the human being as it is,
2. the second one considering it as what it can become.

I go with the second one. What I call “the soul” is a state of being. Is a transformed human being in all of its individual and personal qualities. This is why I am using the term “maturity” to denote this state.
So, developing a soul means, in this context, reaching the fullest potential of maturity.

You see, I don’t care much if the soul has a substance or not. But I do care of it as a potential that can be reached. Another interesting discussion could be on the existence of a framework to achieve this. What do you think?

I would be delighted to hear your arguments on the subject, as I see, you are approaching it quite differently.

I tend to believe that soul can be perceived as a non-physical substance and as a physical phenomena in the same time. The only question is what is the system of reference we are using…
What do U think?